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After a bombshell interview last week during which Christen Ager-Hanssen called out Emin Gün Sirer and Kyle Roche as liars, Kurt Wuckert Jr. talked to him again, longer this time, delving deeper into exactly what happened regarding the Crypto Leaks that made headlines.
Wuckert summarizes the situation
Wuckert opens the livestream by summarizing the situation. He explains that this is a special edition of the CoinGeek Weekly Livestream. He explains that after the explosive Crypto Leaks information came out, CoinGeek has gotten to know some key players, and Ager-Hanssen is one of them. After Roche threw him under the bus, he’s keen to share his side of the story.
Recapping the facts, the pair lay out the following timeline:
- A video leak from Crypto Leaks showed Kyle Roche admitting he’s a legal mercenary for hire. He spoke of doing the bidding of AVA Labs and Emin Gün Sirer to sue competitors, obtain intellectual property, and worse.
- After the story broke, Roche claimed that Ager-Hanssen leaked the videos. He denies this and has taken umbrage against Roche as a result.
- Now, he’s back to talk to Wuckert and flesh out more detail about what happened, including a timeline of events.
Ager-Hanssen explains why he met Kyle Roche
Ager-Hanssen tells Wuckert that he was very interested in the legal side of setting up blockchain projects. He says he wasn’t particularly excited about AVAX or Ava Labs but that he went to meet Roche because he had some legal questions about setting things up in this industry.
He says that Roche’s denial that he knew Ager-Hanssen was working in the industry is “total bullsh*t.” The second lie, he says, is that Ager-Hanssen somehow engineered the situation to set him up. He says that he initially wondered why Roche was divulging the information he did, and his curiosity got the better of him, so he started asking more detailed questions.
Ager-Hanssen again denies that he had anything to do with the recording. He says a South African gentleman was in the room with himself and Roche and believes he is the only one who could have recorded it. He then shows Wuckert the scene where the recording took place, explaining where everyone was sitting at the time.
Looking at the bigger picture of where this story might go, Wuckert notes that it has taken off and is being picked up by mainstream press outlets like Bloomberg and has had consequences for other Roche Freedman lawsuits like the one involving Bitfinex/Tether.
He asks Ager-Hanssen where he thinks this story is going. He replies by likening the current digital currency market to the Dot Com crash, saying he was an internet pioneer and sees blockchain as the new internet that will change how we do everything. He emphasizes that before it can reach its potential, the industry needs to be cleaned up, and this whole saga is part of that process.
On the evidence that has come out since Crypto Leaks
Wuckert mentions some evidence that Ager-Hanssen has put out since the initial leaks. He points to emails between Emin Gün Sirer and Kyle Roche that indicate they were working in tandem towards common goals, if not strictly as a partnership.
Ager-Hanssen first recalls his shock and surprise at being outed in the way he was. However, he says he’s an expert in doing investigative work, and he had already gathered evidence of what was happening inside AVA Labs.
He recalls how the meeting was set up by the South African entrepreneur who had previously contacted him. He accepted the meeting because he is looking at different blockchains for business purposes. He learned that Roche and Gün Sirer own a company together in a 50/50 partnership.
When Roche came to meet him, he was already well aware of Ager-Hanssen’s line of work, and he felt this was one of the reasons he opened up and told him what he was doing.
“Nothing is taken out of context,” he says, referring to the Crypto Leaks tapes.
Ager-Hanssen goes on to explain how he met Gün Sirer for dinner. He says he got the impression he and Roche were like brothers looking after each other. He then recalls a bizarre incident in Roche’s New York office where he showed him a painting of Craig Wright, showing his deep disdain for Dr. Wright.
Spelling out the timeline chronologically, Ager-Hanssen states:
- He met Roche at this home in the United Kingdom.
- The South African businessman took Roche for dinner. Ager-Hanssen was not present.
- Ager-Hanssen then took Roche to dinner on a separate occasion.
- During this second dinner, Roche told Ager-Hanssen the same stories.
- Ager-Hanssen was then contacted by Sam Wang.
- He was then contacted by the President of AVA Labs, John Wu.
- He then met Gün Sirer and AVA Labs CTO Kevin Chen.
From all of this, Ager-Hanssen learned that Gün Sirer and Roche were extremely close and working towards one common goal: making AVA Labs successful and gathering intelligence on rival companies. Wuckert reflects on how this explains a lot and helps him understand why Roche Freedman began undermining their own case in the Kleiman v Wright trial in Florida.
As far as Ager-Hanssen is concerned, Gün Sirer will stop at nothing to achieve his goal of killing Wall Street, including engaging in lies, deception, and unethical activity. He refers to this fixation as “obsessive.” Despite his claims to the contrary, he says that Gün Sirer was well aware of the litigation as part of the overall strategy to accomplish this mission.
Why did they throw Ager-Hanssen under the bus?
Ager-Hanssen reiterates that he can prove Roche and others are lying by showing various emails. Wuckert then asks him why he thinks they tried to throw him under the bus.
Ager-Hanssen says he thinks they panicked, didn’t coordinate their statements, and made an irrational decision. He believes these actions will seriously hurt the credibility of both parties going forward. They can be proven to be lying, and he thinks Roche Freedman is finished as a firm.
While Ager-Hanssen says he’s embarrassed to be outed in the way he was, he also says he’s glad to have a chance to prove to the world that these people are liars.
“If they’re lying about this, they’re lying about absolutely everything,” he says, saying that he now feels all of this was meant to be.
Watch: CoinGeek’s Kurt Wuckert Jr. interviews Christen Ager-Hanssen
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